Thoughts on Native religions and culture

[Jake George]

I have noticed through the years that many people think that all Native American religions are alike and a person from one tribe should be able to tell you about the ceremonies of another different tribe. It is true that some tribes have similar backgrounds for their creation stories but all tribes are not alike.



That is like saying all religions in the Middle East are alike. They all pretty much started in the Old Testament and branched out from there. Muslims, Jews, and Christians all with different sects, beliefs and thoughts about what is the true religion.



The same applies with Native American tribes. Each is different from the other but many share a similar background. The Algonquin sub-cultures for example. Sioux, Lenape, Iroquois Nation tribes, Huron etc, all share the same family tree. However the religion or spiritual side of the culture is very different. Different as Jews are from Muslims.



Much is written about our cultures and how we all have the same beliefs, have multiple G-ds, spirits abound… However much of what is written is false. If you do much research you will find that very few books are written by Native Peoples about our religions. Most are written by a non-native who is told the stories. The writer’s bias and perspective comes through in their writing. They do not do that on purpose. But most writers try to draw similarities to what they know. It is how we writers paint a picture for the reader.



If we do not try to ground what we tell you then what we say can be viewed as just so much supposition because you have nothing in your mind or experience to understand what was just explained to you.



I said when I signed on here I would try to answer questions. The answers will probably be biased because I know a great deal about many Native cultures, but also know that if I tried to explain it and you had no basis to measure it against you would not understand.



I hope you stick around and ask some questions. Our culture is fading away. I fear we are taking much of our knowledge to the graves with us. Knowledge is to precious a gift to keep it locked away.

[Irishrose]

Jake

Your observations are well taken. But, putting bias aside, if you do not write about your religion and many other things that are so important to your heritage how will it be preserved?

I do understand that word of mouth has been the method for generations and perhaps that should be the method. Would it be considered wrong to write these wonderful traditions down?

Each culture has its own methods of letting others know about who they were and how they lived. I truly believe it would be a truly wonderful thing for generations to come to know exactly what the Native Americans were/are all about.

The current edition of the National Geographic magazine has pictures of hand prints on the walls of a cave that seem quite precious to me. It says 'we were here and we want you to know about us'. Should that not be true of the very people that this wonderful land belongs to???

Just an observation on my part. What are your view points?

[Jake George]

Our tradition is oral. The method it is spoken and learned is taught from the time a child is old enough to comprehend. It is the tone of voice, cadence, the hand movements, body language and expression. The words are the story the rest is what make it memorable.



To read our stories and to watch one being told is as different as a star is to a grain of sand. It is the emotion I think that catches my mind and keeps it from wondering. Yes the stories are being written down and they need to be. But what is being lost is the emotion, character and movement of the story.



In “Grandfather’s Song,” I have a traditional story teller named Talking Feather. Throughout the book she never tells one story. She is just coming from telling one, or teaching others in the background. I did have a story in the book but when it was read by non-natives it made absolutely no sense to them. I would have had to change it to have it make sense to them (part of what I eluded to as my or another writer’s bias) and changing the story was not an option. So it was removed.



Instead I told about Talking Feather. What she looked like, how she and the other Elders taught. Little Coyote had to learn the story I had in my book. He mixed up a sequence of events that had no outcome in changing the story, or the general meaning of it. Talking Feather made him stop and do it again. Little Coyote does this as a memory so the story does not need to be in the book, but the meaning of it is and those in my culture will know the story. Little Coyote asked what the harm was the story was still the same outcome.



Talking Feather responds that it goes in the order it was taught, any other way just is not the same. The cadence is off, the motions are not the same. Learning the motions is a major part of what the story teller is. The difference between Robin Williams telling a story and Ben Stine telling the same thing. One animated the other bland.



We have different versions between clans in my own tribe. It is the differences that make the winter story telling so much fun. I said winter because in our culture, stories are only told in winter so they do not interfere with the work that needs done in the summer.



So many stories so little time.

[Jude]

Very enlightening, Jake, thank you! It seems that interest in Native American cultures is growing, as the interest in spiritual matters increases.

I have two books, myself (so far) -- The Wisdom of the Native Americans Edited by Kent Nerburn, and Meditations with the Lakota by Father Paul Steinmetz, a Jesuit priest and missionary among the Oglala Sioux for several decades.

Of course, they're sitting here next to my desk -- part of my "To Do / To Read list"... :o

Perhaps with this renewed interest, we can help keep the culture from "fading away."


Jude :)

[Jake George]

There are a few good books that have been written about Black Elk, a Hunkapa Sioux. He tells the stories of many things and the reasons why.

It is prehaps the best set of Native culture and religion books I have found. If you ever get a chance to make it a Pow Wow it is worth it to go for a weekend and listen to the drum, dancers and stories.

[starlasue]

I too like to read Native American writings. I am enlightened by Black Elk's writings.

I do have a question though. Can non-Native Americans attend Pow-Wows? I have heard many stories about them and would love to be a part of the experiences of one. I thought that you needed to be of Native American descent. Perhaps I am mistaken?

I am still trying to trace back through my Grandmother's line to see if perhaps we have a Native American connection. I have never had the time and money to spend on the research adequately. The 'family' is mum. I strongly suspect there is a connection back through my Great Grandma Sue through my mother's mother, but that it was 'covered' up - but there are clues! ;) I have had a connection and interest in Native American cultures since I was very little.

[rvt2mt]

[color=black][font=Verdana]Our tradition is oral... It is the tone of voice, cadence, the hand movements, body language and expression. The words are the story the rest is what make it memorable

To read our stories and to watch one being told is different ...the emotion, character and movement of the story

Yes, i agree. My father was a story teller, [Irish Tadition] who worked for many years on the Navaho res. It was during the dark days of 'boarding' schools. Because he did not like it, his days off were spent there. With the kids, learning the language, as they were being forced to forget it. Anhyway, I grew up with 'John White hair stories' which i treasure. i do not know how much is included in them. I try to tell them 'just so'. Sadly, i never found a way to have him video tape them.

i am glad to see that interest in 'story telling' is a growing specialty.

-K

[Jake George]

Starlasue,



There are two types of Pow Wows, those open to the public and some only for residents of the rez. Most are open to teach people about our ways and dances. Most of them I attend have small booklets for sale that explain the different dances and such as well as what type of behavior is expected.



Please do come to a Pow Wow. They are amazing, loud, and fun all at the same time.



As for Native genealogy it is next to impossible to trace back to your roots if the family wanted to hide it. Most censuses from years gone by often did not list Native names but just listed buck and squaw and the number of children. Many Native people relocated to different states or different parts of the same state. Until 1893 it was illegal for a Native person to own land, vote or even be considered a citizen. If they renounced their Native heritage they were often allowed to own land and just showed up on new census as white folk.



My family is a prime example. The Government made it difficult to keep your Native name, but yet will not recognize you as Native unless you had relatives living on a reservation in 1903 on what they call the Dawes rolls. It was like a last act of defiance that the Government pulled. There were still Natives reluctant to move to the reservations. So if they were not on the reservation land when the rolls were taken they and their offspring would not be recognized forever as Native Americans.



Part of my family refused to go to Oklahoma so we are not recognized by the US Government as registered Native Americans. I think Chief Zanugia for the Lenape a few years past said it best. “We do not need a piece of paper from the BIA to tell us we are Lenape, we know it in our hearts and souls.”



Amen Brother.

[Gail]

Our tradition is oral. The method it is spoken and learned is taught from the time a child is old enough to comprehend. It is the tone of voice, cadence, the hand movements, body language and expression. The words are the story the rest is what make it memorable.

Jake, is it OK to record the story tellers on DVDs or video tape? That would capture for future generations the words with all that goes along with them. So much precious history has probably been lost by now.

[Jake George]

It depends on the tribe and the storyteller.

Some do not want their photos or videos taken while others are happy to oblidge. You have to ask first.

Example it is OK to film dancers in the Pow Wow ring. If you want to photograph them outside the dance ring you should ask permission first and offer a small token for the dancer's time.

There is also a ladies choice dance where the ladies ask the man to dance. If he declines he has to give you a dollar. It is kind of fun for the women who have a eye on a fella to ask him to dance. If says no it costs him...

It is great fun to see who asks who.

[Jake George]

I honestly do not intend to offend anyone here. Reading a book written by a Jesuit priest about the Native American religion is an oxymoron. It is not possible for a Jesuit to understand Native American religion.



I stated earlier that all writers have a bias and will try to ground what they write about with what they know. In my research over the past six years, I have researched and read perhaps fifty translated documents from encounters by Jesuit’s and Native peoples. In most cases it entailed killing the Native peoples because they were heathens, or in the case of Columbus’ second and third trips to the Carib lands, the Indians were baptized and then killed almost immediately before they could sin, thus gain entry into heaven.



Women and children were given to war dogs to be killed by them in sport. The men and boys were dispatched a bit faster. The sailors and solders had contests to see who could cut a man or boy in half with one blow. What happened to the commandment, Thou Shall not Kill. Ours is closer to the Jewish commandment. Thou shall not murder. We have two commandments about killing. One says Thou shall not murder. The other covers killing in war or to protect your people.



Mean while the Jesuits were standing by baptizing the people to be killed. No do not talk to me of Jesuits and Native Religion. Until 1993 it was still not allowed to teach Native languages on reservations schools. Run by guess who? The Catholic church in many reservations, other Christian churches on others. They can learn the language now but the Churches still run the schools.



Over the past five hundred years more Native Peoples were killed by the church than any other means. I was raised Lutheran and Native American too. I went to the same church my whole life, married my wife in the same one. My father was a good man, when he died the church refused a church service because until the end my father never renounced his Native beliefs. My mother shamed the pastor and congregation into a service for my father. I have not stepped foot into a Lutheran church for services since that day. He died seven years ago.



We had to go to the funeral home after it closed to give my father a Native service, like we were breaking the law so the pastor would not know. So the community would not know. We did not live in a back woods hick town, we lived in Rochester NY. A liberal city. I moved away years earlier because of the double standard in NY about Native peoples and our rights.



Sorry for getting a bit on my soap box. I will help you understand Native people as best I can. But it is hard for me to speak on some subjects, this being one of them. Modern churches still say you can only get to heaven through the son. We know the son and father by different names. We are not so different if they would only listen.



Grandfather’s Blessings my friends and sorry for the ramble.

[Irishrose]

Jake

Please do not apologize for your feelings. Your wounds are deep and deservedly so.

You speak of things that most of us do not know anything about. It is perfectly o.k. ,in my book, for you to enlighten us. Man's sins against man are awful. Taking someone's life in the name of the church is worse than awful as far as I am concerned.

Blessings to you and yours,

[Jude]

Jake, I echo Irishrose's sentiments completely. We all understand how you feel, especially on the topic of missionaries.

I honestly do not intend to offend anyone here. Reading a book written by a Jesuit priest about the Native American religion is an oxymoron.

None taken! I hope that I didn't offend YOU. :) And speaking of oxymorons, the terms "religious/holy war" always gets to me. But, I digress...

As I mentioned earlier, I haven't yet read this book, but I do know that Fr. Paul Steinmetz was actively researching Native American beliefs and traditions, particularly among the Lakota, between 1961 and 1981, so he is a modern-day priest and not a missionary, trying to convert Native Americans to Christianity.

From what I read of him, it seems that a prayer that was spoken at a reservation funeral was what sparked his interest. His studies have drawn upon the works of religious scholars as well as the psychology of Carl Jung, examining the usage and meaning of symbols, both in Christian and in Native American contexts.

I cannot really give a review yet, but it would be interesting to see how his work is received by the Native American people. :hmm:


Jude

[Ancestor]

Jake, thank you for sharing some of the Native American culture with us. I remember going up to Flagstaff, Arizona to some of the beutiful dances that were held every summer. I was so young that I cannot remember the tribe and hope that I will be forgiven for that. They had to close down to the public due to people were not respecting the land by not littering. My Grandparents knew the man who wrote The Book of the Hopi by Whitebear Fredricks. He was a kind warm person to know and I remember how his spirit energy felt and even though I could feel past pain his energy was pure warthm to me. When he died though his wife was not allowed to go to his funeral which was held on the reservation near Sedona nor was she allowed to know where his remains are. She too died a few years later and was not buried next to him. She was white and not allowed by his family to be buried next to the man she loved with all her being. I hope that not all tribal families do that. Anyway thank you for showing us.