John Edward on: suicide

[Pam]

(From the closed captioning of the 4-28-02 Evening Show on SCIFI:


"...most of the time, when somebody crosses over, whether it be an accident, a murder, however, even suicides--it's not the way to go, but if somebody does cross themselves over for whatever reason--there are energies on the other side-- family, friends, and guides-- that are waiting to kind of, like, help us.

You know, it's like when you walk off the plane and a lady's standing there with a cruise sign saying, "come with me." It's that same kind of thing to help debrief the person, because sometimes people don't realize that they've crossed over.
I mean, take somebody who's an atheist or an agnostic who has
no belief system in life, and they cross over. Surprise. You know, it's like they got to have somebody there, kind of preparing them
for, like, you know..."

[Jude]

Thanks for posting it, Pam. That little end piece was the only part of last night's show that I saw, and didn't record.

Such an important message for so many.

[JBannister]

Pam,
Thank you. Really.
Of course I have heard JE speak of it in the past (crossing ones
self over), But never paid as much attention until recently.
Those words, JE's, brought graciously to me by you, Pam ....
Well, I need to print them out.
Something to hold onto to - like a shield! To be used on those
'special-hallmark-moments'. Like when someone has the impulse
to "share" with me their views on what my friend is now enduring.
Yes, apparently in somes eyes, The Sweetest Man in the World
is now burning in eternal damnatation or experiencing nothingness as punishment for his "sin" of crossing himself.
Oh. They mean well I guess. Such odd-ducks(IMO only) you kinda have to be amused. To embrace their beliefs would be,
for me, a feeling of eternal damnation.
(Uhm, trying hard not to offend) Julie

[greta]

Julie,
It's so sad that "they" are scornful of us for our belief system while we are often more than a little disturbed by theirs. I have had a great many encounters with people of this mind set (too many, actually, because a large number of my family members have these beliefs.) What really pushed me over the edge with them is when my aunt condemned me to hell for getting married in a Catholic Church. I suspect she's a bit of an extremist but the point is that if I ever had any hope of adopting their views, it was ruined at that moment. I've said to them many times that unless God stood in my living room and told me what I should and should not believe, I can only trust my heart and mind which are telling me that any belief system that will condemn another soul to eternal damnation for succumbing to the pain in this life by choosing to escape it, or for (gasp!) getting married by a priest, well, that's just not a belief system for me.

Also hoping very much not to offend but feeling the need to say this.

greta

[Pam]

Originally posted by greta
I've said to them many times that unless God stood in my living room and told me what I should and should not believe, I can only trust my heart and mind <scnip>
greta

That's really all any of us can do, no matter what belief system we hold. It is sad that others are not content with their own belief systems, but they think they have to impose it on others as well.

[JBannister]

I am enviable of your eloquence. You said it so well.
Thank you.
Julie

[alexeyak]

Is it the only time JE talks about suicide?

[JBannister]

Welcome to the board!
Suicide is a topic that comes up often on CO and at seminars.
It usually comes through to JE as someone who takes respons-
ibility for their passing.
I have heard the subject mentioned several times when some-
one who has "crossed themselves over" comes through. JE will
often comment on the topic. However, the qoute given by Pam is,
I believe, the most in-depth that I recall.
Julie

[alexeyak]

I think this topic is very serious because
people decide to take their own lives in hopes
that all their hardships will disappear
along with them. Hoever, they don't get what
they wanted because they do not disappear
and all their emotional hardships go with
them into spirit world, and what they
experience, only people from the other side
can tell us. This topic, I think, becomes
even more important considering increasing
movement to legalize assisted suicide.
I think, people are owed to know what they
should expect should they decide to end
their life in here.

Alexey

[Irishrose]

I actually wonder just how 'assisted' suicide is viewed. JE talked about the one negative engergy that came through to him due to a book someone was writing. He got it that the person was responsible for their own actions when in fact he was killed by lethal injection - so in a way he did commit suicide. His crossing was the result of his own actions - the reason he was in prison in the first place.

So if the law does pass to allow assisted suicides I actually wonder how that will be viewed. Probably 99% of the time the individual is within the window of when their crossing would take place with the difference being that they get ready for it differently.

If this does pass then society as a whole (US only?) will grow to look at this completely differently over time.

Just a thought - another perspective.

Irishrose

[alexeyak]

Hmm. Very interesting about execution example.
As about assisted suicide, I also have another
wonder. In case of assisted suicide two parties
are involved in the action. While one basically
commits suicide, the other might be considered
as a murderer even if the country law permits it.
I think, it is not by chance that executioners
in prison experience very strong emotions. It's
like taking persons blood on one own hands no
matter how it is done and what laws and
procedures are. I think the same, if not
stronger, applies to suicide assistant.
Something is not right about this and one's
conscience must feel it. So, when somebody
decides to pass away with help of doctors, he
puts himself into unknown trouble and involves
the doctor into the act.
Alexey

[dwing123]

Alexey, in considering your theory, then what makes the removal of life support systems different from doctor aided suicides?? This has been an ongoing battle between the medical profession and families who have no hope that a loved one will recover.

[alexeyak]

Actually, I wondered about this too. I know very
little about this (basically from the movies :)
and don't understand why they do it. There is no
suicide here but it involves even more than one
person in deciding about someone else's life.
If I think about this, there must be a reason
why the terminally ill people are still alive.
May be it is to stimulate people to make more
effort in finding the cure, to improve medical
technology, to understand the cause of illness
better. It might play good for the relatives
too - to develop their hearts, if they care.
How relatives can know if they do good to their
loved one if they force him into spirit world.
Also, I heard about cases when people recovered
when doctors didn't think they would even
improve. We know so little about laws of spirit
world and about diseases and we already want to
make such big decisions as when we want to go.

Alexey

[Pam]

I think the significant phrase John uses is "causes his/her own crossing" and I think anytime you take your own life, either by committing murder and knowing you can be condemned to death, taking your own life or assissted suicide, the message from the other side, is "it's a mistake". No matter how ill you are, that is part of this life's lesson, and to cut it short is to circumvent your spiritual growth. You're sending your spirit to the Other Side, before the time is right, i.e. before you're really finished on This Side.

I see ending life support as a totally different scenario, in that it's only done when all the decision makers (Medical and family) are sure that brain functions are dead and cannot be revived. In cases like this, we can assume that either the spirit has already gone to the Other Side, or if it's still on this side, can never again continue to grow because of the medical state of the mind/body. At that point we realize that the body and brain are just the empty vechicle for the spirit, and by ending life support we are freeing the spirit (if it's still there) or providing closure to the suriving loved ones.

[Irishrose]

My aunt was on life support for three days but to no avail. She should not have been on life support at all as she was basically gone from the beginning. Families do have a terrible time with this issue because of the 'what ifs'. I believe that JE's comment that the 'soul knows' always fits regardless of what we think - problem is we don't know what the soul knows.

The problem is very difficult isn't it?

[alexeyak]

I definitely have to think about this more.
Is there any way to ask JE on these issues,
or inspire the whole session/show?

Alexey

[Irishrose]

You are most welcome to write to John and ask his opinion on anything. He will most likely answer you.

Irishrose

[Rainay]

The book Hello From Heaven, by the Gugenheims has a theory about assisted suicide in their book ( I am sooooo, soooo sorry if spelling is wrong, my book is loaned out). If I remember correctly, it states that if the body is suffering much, the spirit will pass happily and easily to otherside. Basically, it's not the same as a suicide w/o health issues (I think). I wish I had my book right now. NOT, that suicide is ever right!!!!!!!

[Pam]

I certainly don't have to tell anyone, that without facts, all we have are opinions on this subject. Even what John Edward tells us, are his opinions. I admire and respect Judith G., and she may well be right, that the crossing is happy and easy, but my opinion is that you would just have to live that experience over again, because you did not see it to it's natural end.

It opens up a whole can of worms, spiritual and ethical, about "where do you draw the line?" How much pain and suffering do you have to have, for it to be "ok" to cross yourself? Arthritis? Emotional pain? I think we come to this plane for a reason, and any unnatural ending is a circumvention of the lesson plan. Just my opinion :)

[Rainay]

Please, let me clarify. My family has had to deal with taking someone off life support, my father. He could not live without this assistance and there was nothing the doctors could do to help him live w/o assistance. A few weeks before he passed he told my mother that he would like to stick around to be with us, but he was tired of the pain and didn't want to live with it anymore. I don't feel we were the ones to make the decision, there was nothing we or the docs could do. I don't really know if it was even up to my dad (ie, take better care of himself), but my father suffered much physical pain nevertheless. Even while in his best health toward the end, he had poor quality of life. I always felt it was his love for family and never say die attitude he always had through his life that helped him overcome the odds so many times. I feel taking my father off life support is totally different than a suicide of a healthy body. Just my opinion.

[Pam]

((((Rainay))))) I totally agree with you. I can't even imagine having to be in your family's shoes during a time like that. It's definately different than assisted suicide, from the spiritual perspective.