Help! Exploring Numerology [Archive]

Katherine

09-19-2003, 10:19 PM

Paula and Don,

Well after figuring my "Soul Urge" both ways, I was so blown away. The Conte....the name on my birth certificate....is the one that fits me. Not the Conty.

I know John says there are no accidents. This is just so strange.

When I went to get my birth certificate for my social security I remember what the woman said, "you aren't who you think you are", and I said "What?" she rephrased it...."I mean your name isn't spelled the way you have it written.

My Dad and I have had a good laugh over this and I'm sure my Mom on the otherside thought it was funny.

Many, many years ago when I was just a little girl....I was at my grandparent's home playing with my cousins....One particular cousin, not my favorite then or now ;) said "You can't play with us because you aren't a Conty" course my parents were furious.....but you know she didn't know how right she was;).

I will do as you suggest and do my charts both ways. No wonder I've been so confused most my life :lwink: :lwink:

Thanks for responding.

Katherine

forgiveness

09-20-2003, 10:02 AM

That is the way I do it and have understood it is the way to be done. The books that I have read on it say to use the name on the birth records.

BUT

Like anything else it is a psychic tool meant to unleash your abilitites so....the bottom line is to follow your gut on it too.
Angelina

forgiveness

09-20-2003, 10:10 AM

http://www.2numerology.com/

Pam

09-20-2003, 02:18 PM

I have to chime in here and say "your name at birth" meaning how it reads on your birth certificate, because married women are told to use their maiden name instead of married name. But it would definately be interesting to see how the numberology based on the altered spelling compares to the reading for the original.

Katherine

09-20-2003, 11:46 PM

Thank you Forgiveness for the website info......It confirmed that I am doing the numbers correctly.

I've completed a good portion of my chart using Shirley Lawrence's book "Exploring Numerology, Life by the Numbers".

I have discovered the name on my birth certificate is the one that fits me. I never, never, used that name or even knew that spelling existed until a little over 6 months ago.

Could be that is why I never looked into numerology before .....I sure would have blown it off based on the name I thought I was born with;)

I hope I'm making sense folks because when I read this over it seems clear as MUD!!!:lwink:

:shrug: :shrug:
Katherine

Dawn

09-26-2003, 11:59 AM

Hey, Angelina....

That's a pretty cool website:D

Thanks for the info....

Hiddendepths

11-08-2003, 03:19 PM

So what is numerology actually used for? Sorry if i sound stupid.

Pam

11-08-2003, 04:16 PM

That's a broad question and you may get different replies. :)

Basically, based upon the spiritual assumption that the universe is made up of vibrating energy, (whether physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual) that numbers and letters also have thier own unique vibration. The belief is that by computing your own personal numbers based on your name at birth, you can decipher such information as your personal destiny, purpose here in life, and what your challenges and conquests will be during this incarnation, and other specific information.

The ancient Egyptians believed in the magical power of numbers, and the ancient Jews believed that every letter of the Talmud reflected a particular vibration or quality of G-d, and that encoded in the letters and numbers of the bible were the secrets of the universe. This is just a sampling, as there are many flavors of numerology still in use today.

Theophilia

11-24-2003, 07:37 PM

I thought Numerology was pretty silly until John started talking about it. Then I thought I'd better at least become familiar and try to see what I did not understand. So, I did a chart for someone I know well, and used no intuitive information.

I was really impressed. But how can this be about developing psychic power? Then I realized that the numbers are like waves in a pond, all intersecting and affecting one another and so it's like Tarot. You get your own unique frames of reference for the cards, and we bring our own psychic ability (or lack thereof!) to our analyses in Numerology.

At least, that is where I am today. I have six charts to do by December 1. I am very blessed to have a pool of people who are willing to be my guinea pigs during my training period.

Theo-

Katherine

11-24-2003, 07:59 PM

Theo,

Did you buy a book on numerology? If so, would you mind sharing the title with me.

Thanks!

Katherine

Theophilia

11-25-2003, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by Conty
Theo,

Did you buy a book on numerology? If so, would you mind sharing the title with me.

Katherine

Katherine,

Being on limited income, I almost never buy a book unless I have read it, so I get all my books from the library. They had a book called Numerology Decoder by Richard Craze that I read. I also have this great "Everything Divining the Future Book" by Jenni Kosarin and my notes from John's tape. I love these "Complete Idiot's Guide" type books for getting started.

The thing is, and this is just me maybe, I don't think most of what is in the books matters. I need a system, a set of ways of operating, parameters to work within, but the real information is still coming from, well, wherever it is that it comes from! For instance, one of the secondary numbers is 19. But 19 can never ever be anyone's secondary number because that is defined as the last two-digit number that reduces to a one-digit number. 19 reduces to 10, a two-digit number that reduces to 1. So, 19 is never a secondary number.

Interestingly, 19 is the only Secondary Number that has very negative connotations, like self-destruction. In which case, the books are wrong, but the information is right: you cannot have a natural set of proclivities or vibrations or whatever that lead to your own destruction.

For me, it doesn't matter much what book I read as long as I get a set of information to work from. So, I usually end up photocopying pages from various books and making my own working notebooks for things. It was how I did my friend's reading. I used all three sources.

I'd like to think I am unique and independent, but it is just barely possible that I am simply cheap!

Theo-

Katherine

11-25-2003, 10:24 AM

Katherine

I'd like to think I am unique and independent, but it is just barley possible that I am simply cheap!

Theo

:lwink: :lwink: :lwink:

I don't think you are cheap at all....you are quite clever and I admire your system.

Thanks for the smile.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Blessings,
Katherine

Terri

02-05-2004, 12:46 PM

I'd say use your birth name. My girlfriend is ungrounded. She doesn't get along with many people. I've noticed that she likes people who call her by her birthname and not her nickname. I think it's the energy of the names.

just my opinion.......

AnnaA

03-20-2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by forgiveness
http://www.2numerology.com/

Beaut site. Emailed enquiry to them. Hope it is not horrendously expensive.

Great presentation thanks for finding it.

Jacqueline

03-23-2004, 10:51 PM

:confused:

If we are suppose to use our name at birth, then could someone please tell me which name I need to use?
My name at birth is completely different then the name that I have now. Being adopted, my parents changed my name to something that they wanted, not the name that I was given at birth. So, now what do I do? Do I use my "birthname" or do I use the name my adopted parents gave me?
I'd really appreciate some input here.

:cat:

Dawn

03-24-2004, 07:43 AM

Jacqueline.....John's says that you should use the name as it appears on your birth certificate.....that's what he says on his audio tapes. Hope that helps you!

:shrug:

CarolynB

03-24-2004, 08:11 AM

This website is free and does a great job of explaining numerology: www.simplynumbers.com

It will also calculate your numbers: personal day, personal year, personal name, personal numbers, career numbers, soul numbers, destiny numbers, personal aspects and Life Path. From the home page, click on "Numberology tools" and on the right hand side are links to all those numbers as well as an interpretation of them.

They also have an excellent reading list.

Wow! It's been a while since I was at this site and there is lots more information than there used to be. What I really like is what they say here:

"Knowledge is power. Utilize as many books, teachers, and classes that you can while using our site as a reference point. No one person or resource can be your only source of information. Keep an open mind and good luck on your journey into Numerology. We hope that we can be of help!"

Theophilia

03-24-2004, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Jacqueline
:confused: My name at birth is completely different then the name that I have now. Being adopted, my parents changed my name to something that they wanted, not the name that I was given at birth. So, now what do I do?
:cat:

The reference to using a "birth name" is to differentiate that from your "known name" which is usually a nickname. I did a chart for a woman who went by her middle name, no one had known her legal name was "Helene." Or, if your name is Margaret, people might call you Peggy. That sort of thing.

Your birth name is not necessarily the name you were given technically at birth, but the full name you grew up with. If you were adopted as a baby or very young child, go with your full legal name, which I am assuming is the one your adoptive parents chose. If you were adopted as an older child or teen-ager, go with the original name on your birth certificate.

You use the numbers from the different names to determine different sets of traits.

Theo-

Irish140

03-24-2004, 09:17 AM

Jacqueline,

I phoned my friend and teacher, Ellen, whom I write about at length in Paige's thread, and asked her about your question. Her answer agrees with what Theo said, if you were adopted as a baby, go with the name your adoptive parents gave you.

She said if you weren't adopted until you were older, say almost a year, THEN she would use the original name on the birth certificate. If you were adopted as an older child, say over a year or two, she would do charts using both names and study how they both fit you and weigh the pros and cons in helping you to decide what you AND she felt resonated with you as an adult coming to her for a session.

What I find interesting AND frustrating is that John says to only use the name on the birth certificate...is that correct, he says that? If so, just another example of differing opinions from , in my mind, two impeccable sources (with Theo it's three actually!) that gives conflicting and differing answers. And then we wonder why the unenlightened , uninformed, unstudied and uninterested don't take us seriously. We have so much to learn and come to terms and aggreement with in the field of Metaphysics.

And until there is more uniformity, we weaken our belief stance to the general public.

Hope this helps a little, Jacqueline!

Irish140

Pam

03-24-2004, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by Irish140
Jacqueline,What I find interesting AND frustrating is that John says to only use the name on the birth certificate...
If you're quoting him from the workshop we attended, to be fair, he said that in answer to the question "do you use your married name or your birth name?" and I think I would agree with him there, because you can't discount who you were before you got married. I wonder if he'd have a different answer if he were asked about adoption :confused:

Pam

03-24-2004, 09:35 AM

And until there is more uniformity, we weaken our belief stance to the general public.

With all due respect, because Cindy, you KNOW I love you....I hope! But....

Sirens went off in my head when I read this. Why does there have to be uniformity? Doesn't freedom of thought and belief take a higher precedence than the comfort of uniformity of belief?

No offense, but this sounds to me like "fundamentalism" as if one would be able to write a written book on which way is right or wrong. Can't there be more than one school of thought with regards to numerology or any other scrying system?

Dawn

03-24-2004, 09:46 AM

In my earlier post, I said that John stated on his audio tapes that we should use the name as it appears on our birth certificate.

Just to be positive, I will quote him directly from the tape....

"A numerologist will take your birth date and your name as it appears on your birth certificate and get to work".

But, that statement does not really address the subject of what to do under the circumstances of adoption, so I am not really sure. :confused:

Irish140

03-24-2004, 10:52 AM

Pammy,

I'm so glad you asked me to clarify my thoughts, and you gave me such a laugh...I don't know why, you're just funny!

But to get serious here,you're absolutely right, in the realm of the spirit and the beyond -the-physical worlds, how can there be limits, and why would we try to install them?

But here's the thing. I don't know how many times someone who's not interested or not informed at all in astrology, numerology, mediumship, but especially in what is closer to the "Sciences" in that THESE areas(numerology and astrology) can be written down, have written symbols and some kind of step by step mathematical process.Anyway, these studies ARE based on irreffutable avenues,meaning the Natal Chart and the Numerology Chart have to be calculated so you can arrive at the blueprint: the Natal Chart. The Numerology Chart. There has to be a starting point to use in these two areas so you then can begin to "read, analyze, and learn about ourselves and others and how we fit in and why we're here and what is our purpose.The starting point is THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP , which we then in turn use to implement what it all means. There can only be one correct chart. We weaken our positions when we can't even agree on how to get GET that chart, and so end up with many differing charts. No wonder we don't get taken seriously.

A Natal Chart is either wrong or it's right. It's either the right chart or the wrong chart. The Numerology chart is either wrong or it's right, it's either the correct one or the incorrect one. You don't make up innumerable charts for either study and say ,well, I'll use that rising sign for this purpose, or I'll use that Life Path number from that configuration, and then use other figures and planetary placements from another chart, throw them all together and say "Dinner's ready...come to the table!" The charts themselves are irrefutable. You cannot say oh I use the birth certificate name and that's the only way. Or I use only the time on the birth certificate and that's the only chart you should work with. Or no, you must use the Asteroids, or Sidereal Astrology, or no, only if I rectifiy to MY satisfaction will it be correct. As it stands now, we've got a huge hodge-podge system of calculating and we look like a bunch of unorganized, meandering souls. As a study, Metaphyiscs MUST have a foundation of agreement among those who practice it ,that at least in terms of the working starting point (meaning the chart itself,) well, there's got to be a continuity, an undeniable aggreement among those who believe in its validity, that, yes, this is the way it's calculated, drawn up, and DONE. We are weakened as a group when we can't even agree that there is a right way and one way to arrive at the starting point. Either 1+1 =2 or it doesn't.

Having said all that, here is where maybe I'm not explaining myself and why I say you and I actually ARE in agreement:There is and must be utter freedom of expression in spirit. No walls, no limits, no wrong answers. Once you have a correct starting point, be it an astrology chart or a numerology chart, and this should be written in stone...it's either wrong or it's right...then the interpretation, the predictions, the opportunity for growth through self exploration, the endless possiblities and unending ways to use what these charts teach us, well, that's where we fly!

But, if what you base all this work and action on is not correct, you're wasting your time because you're working with a false foundation. And when a person who is curious about whether there IS anything to any of this, well, when they step inside that door and everywhere they turn they get a different answer, and that's just on the charts themselves, the chaos in that kind of environment may well turn them off. All of us who believe do ourselves a great disservice when even we can't agree among ourselves what's correct or what's not.

The chart itself: there can be only one. What we do with it: endless possibilities!

Irish140

Pam

03-24-2004, 11:58 AM

I hear in your words that you seek confirmation, acceptance, from those who are uninterested or uninformed. And I understand the desire for such acceptance, I really do. It's human to want to be accepted and validated for what you do and believe.

Since you understand me, I'll write like I speak: the heck with them. It's not about them, you don't need thier acceptance. ;) Let those that can, hear and understand. But that's easy for me to say, because I already hold that belief.

Astrology IS in a class of it's own, when it comes to scrying. I think the general concensus is, that using numerology, tarot, iching, etc. are simply tools to unlock the psyche, opening up channels to intuitive information.

The birth moment is fixed, but as you say, interpretation is not. Without being able to access intuition or psychic information, you're sunk. In that respect, isn't the chart just a tool also?

The name is not fixed, for a variety of reasons: marriage, adoption, nicknames, confirmation names, stage names, pen names, etc.

What about when the birth registrar typist makes a mistake and you meant to name your child "Corey" but they type "Corrie"?

What about when the registrar makes a mistake and types the birth time as a "3:45" instead of 5:43" and no one ever challenged it, because at the time "who cares?"

Isn't the heart of what you do in the intution that over-rides the very human aspect of human error or ego that changes the initial "real" information (birth times, names)?

Aren't these human constructs (astrology charts, tarot, numerology) simply just tools to unlock the intuition?

I don't agree that we are weakened as a group when we don't all agree on "one way" of doing it. How will new ideas or new information ever be formed, if Astrologists decide in the year 2004, "this is the way it's done, this is right, not open to personal preference". This is a New Idea Killer, to put such boundaries upon what I believe, is not meant to have boundaries? Isn't this God's (creator, the source, whathaveyou) territory, and how you can confine such energy to the written word?

Would you suggest that the "rules" for astrology will never change? That a "scorpio rising" in the year 5624BC is to be interpreted exactly the same in the year 64,590AD? That suggests that the universe is fixed an unchanging.

I admit I am not that knowledable in the field of astrolgoy, so maybe my lack of undertanding isn't seeing the point. But I'm always anxious to listen and learn :)

Theophilia

03-24-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Pam
I wonder if he'd have a different answer if he were asked about adoption :confused: [/B]

I agree. I think when we look to John on this and some other things, we only have a few brief comments rather than a workshop with a lot of give and take or a book specifically on the topic which can cover the ubiquitous "exceptions to the rule."

Theo

CarolynB

03-24-2004, 12:16 PM

MrsJones wrote:
"A numerologist will take your birth date and your name as it appears on your birth certificate and get to work".

Keep in mind that many who are adopted (especially as infants) are issued "birth certificates" in their adoptive parents names ... this is actually something I didn't know until yesterday. (synchronicity!) A friend of mine who works in the office right next to me adopted a year ago and she has been trying to get his birth certificate so they can get his social security number so they can do their taxes. Unfortunately the office the adoption is coming out of is one of the offices particularly hard struck by 9/11 (they're backed up from issuing the death certificates). The birth certificate won't be available for another 6 months or so:( . Another side effect of 9/11 is the Homeland Security Agency won't let Social Security issue social security numbers without birth certificates and all these parents have is the certificate of adoption. Fortunately they ran into a kind soul at SS who was willing to issue the SSN with the certificate of adoption (they had been working with a woman who was being a stickler for the rules!!!) This was with 2 US-citizen birth parents and 2 us-citizen adoptive parents ... I can't imagine the horror stories for non-citizen adoptions... But I digress ...

Pam wrote:
Aren't these human constructs (astrology charts, tarot, numerology) simply just tools to unlock the intuition?

That's certainly my take on it. The tools are only as good as the information used to construct them and then only as good as the intuit is in interpreting them. That's a lot of variables going on.

Pam

03-24-2004, 12:42 PM

Carolyn that's true, about being re-issued birth certificates. Zach has a Korean birth certificate from his date of birth, and when we went to court to finalize the adoption over a year after his birth, we were issued a State Of Illinois birth certificate, with his original birth date. More opportunities for error, when transcribing from one document, to another, just the like bible (but now *I* digress!)

If you folks haven't figured this out about me already, I have a problem with 'authority' ;) and I detest fundametalism of any kind, even in the "New Age" category. I can't stand being told how to interpret absract information.

In my opinion, the early mystic Jews and the Native Americans had the right idea when they refused to put certain metaphysical or spiritual teachings into writing. They knew that the teachings would suffer when confined to the written word, because of multiple translations and copying error, and that the written word just doesn't compare to a verbal teaching.

Irish140

03-24-2004, 02:34 PM

I couldn't give a flyin fig about "converting" anybody to any belief system. My goal in striving for perfection ONLY pertains to the step in the process where you lay the groundwork for all that comes after it.

ONLY IN THIS STEP, do I unequivocally believe that, unless this step is taken to ensure that the information is as correct as one can make it ,at least with what knowledge we possess at this point in time, we are twirling at windmills in a hit and miss fashion.

Since my areas of interest and experience lie in Astrology and Numerology, it's in these two areas that I'm mainly talking about.If you don't start with a correctly erected birth chart, or if you don't start from the beginning with a correct numerology chart, you really are only working with intuition at best, guessing at the worst. If either chart is calculated using erroneous information, it's not a legitimate tool at all. You might as well stare into a glass of water and make predictions.

And what motivates me to not settle for less is not to impress, or find approval from others. On the contrary, if that's been what gives me the passion for this seeking, I would have quit a long time ago ! I'm too old to let that be my barometer, believe me!

However, that's not to say that I don't not want to be a role model for what having the opportunity to find the beauty and growth that being in metaphysics brings to a person. But if I fluff off the basics as being non-important ,because, hey anybody can make up stuff and say, "well, you know how those Pisces can be! "Or, "well, what do you expect...they're a Sagittarian Life Path 8?" I don't go out looking for a fight over my beliefs, or I certainly don't start off every introduction, "How do you do? This is what I believe...wait, unless you won't like me if I do!"

But let's face it.There's still a lot of murkiness out there in the field of Astrology and Numerology, mainly because their starting point involves taking data, that's either correct or incorrect, mathematically figuring it out and coming to what should be an undisputed answer. By this I mean a workable, accurate chart.

Once you get to that answer, it's at this point that I totally agree with you guys. That's when intuition kicks in, as well as subjective opinions about what it all means and what one should do with its lessons.

And you're also correct , I think, to say, well why do you need a chart of any kind at all? Just use your intuition and inner voice.
Nothin wrong with that either. But me, I prefer a written plan.

Pam, just the few examples you gave of how mistakes can be made, (mispelling of names, a mix-up in a birth time.) That so encapsulates the driving problem for me in my quest to do it right or not at all.

Also, in regards to the rules of Astrology never changing...well, I guess I'd have to say that I hope how we interpret what we know in reading a chart will evolve in both sophistication and sympathetic understanding of each other and ourselves. And I hope, but don't believe in my lifetime, that we'll discover the absolute correct process to arrive at a TRUE CHART, especially for Astrology and possibly for Numerology. And this last paragraph really , in a nutshell,encapsulates my dilemma and the impetus for writing all things I've written up to this point.

Believe me, be glad it doesn't pose a problem for you if all this doesn't seem important in the scheme of things. It's troubled me for at least the last 10 years!

And ,I know, it's my lesson to work out. Thanks for sharing, everyone!

Irish140

Theophilia

03-24-2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Irish140
Pam, just the few examples you gave of how mistakes can be made, (mispelling of names, a mix-up in a birth time.) That so encapsulates the driving problem for me in my quest to do it right or not at all.
Irish140

I'm about to say one of those things I say that always gets me into trouble or just irritates the crap out of people. I think I'll do it, anyway.

You can't do it right. No one can.

Wow, how's THAT for a unilateral blanket statement!

This could get to be a really great discussion about process if we all don't get mad and take our marbles and go home.

This is what I think might happen. You get a great intuitive who does gifted work. They use some tool, like numerology. But they think it is about the numbers instead of about them. Like, what if John taught that all visions of wiping a slate clean meant you should move on? Or all visions of certain colors of roses had certain messages attached? But he wouldn't because my symbols and yours and his will be different.

Five doesn't mean anything. Neither does 33, anymore than the King of Pentacles means something. We have just come to attach meanings to the things we create and so the other side folks use the symbols to talk to us.

I like doing Tarot. I like it better than numbers because there are more symbols and connections and flexibility. But it would work as well if I took blank cards and drew words on them at random.

And none of this is about convincing the public. You can't do that, either. People get it or they don't.

(And, yes, I know I am irritating. I always say I don't mean to be, it's apparently genetic. )

Anyway, it can't be about the tools, it has to be about the process or it doesn't make sense. And the process is what will always be essentially the same, I think.

Maybe we need to talk more about how it works instead of what we work with. Then, ALL our tools will always work.

Theo--

Pam

03-25-2004, 07:09 AM

Theo, then I'm irritating too, because I agree 100% with everything you say. But I don't think that we can apply even our own statements in a blanket way.

People outside of the new age movement tend to lump all astrologers, card readers and mediums into one group of people, and assume that we all have the same thinking traits and world views. We don't. Different strokes for different folks. Astrology and numerology seems to be in their own silos when it comes to scrying.

Astrology used to be a generally accepted as a science, and it's still considered as such by those who practice it, as Irish stated earlier in the thread. It does use hard and fast rules, with the planets being in fixed positions measured to the fractions of degrees, the movement of those planets being absolutely predictable. You could theoretically do one reading for a person, that would last them their entire life because the birth moment does not change, and the position of the planets at that moment are written in stone.

The differences in other scrying tools are probably obvious to anyone who belongs to this part of the group, in that the tools themselves are unpredictable. The throw of rune stones, the dealing of tarot cards, the tea leaves, etc. are never predictable and can change from reading to reading.

My point in highlighting the differences, is that there are different kinds of people, who think differently, and have different needs in navigating and arranging their world. Some people prefer relying on the left side of the brain dominantly. They see the world in the black and white. Things either are, or they aren't. There are no shades of gray. They tend to not to be able to tolerate much ambiguity. I think this is the type of person who prefers astrology or numerology. You have to "know" what the symbols mean, and they all mean the same thing to every reader (approximately.) Sign posts and meanings are fixed and while the blend of signposts have to be interpreted, there is very little room for ambiguity in what each sign post means on it's own.

Then there are the right brain dominates, who shun logic in favor of what their emotions and feelings tell them. They see the world in many shades of grays from black to white. To them, a thing can be black and white at the same time, it doesn't have to be either/or. They tend not to tolerate absolutes, seeing the world as an ever changing and shifting rubic's cube. I think this is the person who prefers tarot, runes, tea leaves, crystal gazing and mediumship because they require interpretation at the emotional and intuitive level. To suggest that a card or a symbol should have the same meaning to all readers would make a tarot lover extremely nervous, or to call the reading a "science" would probably make them shiver. Ambiguity is something these people are very comfortable with, because in their mind, they can embrace the unknowable as a thing of beauty in itself, and can even explain it's purpose.

Neither type is right or wrong, and neither one is better than the other. Each brings their own unique strengths to the table. Just the necessary differences to bring balance into our world :)

Irish140

03-25-2004, 08:30 AM

I agree with almost all of what both of you stated. Really ,I do.
Astrology and Numerology ARE different areas of metaphysics...in that the basis for using them starts with black and white mathematical deductions. Astrology is a companion science to Astronomy...although it's the relation we only talk about in the back rooms in whispers.

But when you choose either one of these areas as one that interests you, be aware that there ARE...have to be...hard and fast rules of calculation. There are no emotions involved with mathematics...it is what it is. And the more we move toward agreeing what is and isn't correct in arriving at our starting point, meaning the chart of both studies, the simpler our job is to move on to the meat of our purpose...interpretation and implementation. But this first step, this first process HAS to have a form, a system, some uniformly accepted way to begin the process...you avoid chaos and you lead to keeping it simple, which is place where the best intuitive messages and guidances come from.

In the area of Astrology, we have to respect that aspect of it. If your Natal Chart is incorrect because it used the wrong data, it's useless as a tool of any kind. It's the foundation you base everything on from the beginning . And if it becomes your intuitive tool of choice, you've got to follow some sort of set of rules. I am only referring here to the beginning process. How one reads the chart is free-form, as it should be.

I've got a beautiful 7 inch Russian crystal ball, three sets of Tarot cards wrapped in their silk covering and resting in their wooden boxes, astro dice...all wonderful tools of the trade. And I agree with what Theo said...these are all basically fancy trappings for unleashing psychic potential. But there are no mathematical steps that need to be taken to use these processes. So there is no need for hard and fast rules as the first step in using them.

But that's just not true in Astrology. If you commit to using this form, you have a responsibility to accept the fact that there are scientific rules and regulations that go along with it. And if you like and need absolute frreedom of expression in your intuitive quest, this area is not for you. It's probably my Virgo Moon that requires a plan, a form, a strive for perfection in the little minute details that sort of frustrate some of you who live in the emotional world. I don't know any of your birth data, Theo, so I wouldn't know for sure how you see this differently. But if you think I'm totally without any emotion or artistic compulsion, know that I have four planets in Pisces, so I can fully appreciate the ability to go on blind naked intuition and feelings!

It's wonderful to be able to share thoughts and experiences with all of you. We learn so much from each other! We're very lucky.

Irish140

Theophilia

03-25-2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Irish140
I don't know any of your birth data, Theo, so I wouldn't know for sure how you see this differently. But if you think I'm totally without any emotion or artistic compulsion, know that I have four planets in Pisces, so I can fully appreciate the ability to go on blind naked intuition and feelings!
Irish140
Sheesh! I hate it when I write a whole post and get thrown off AOL before I can send it! So, quick, I want to say....I could never think you weren't intuitive and creative and certainly I can't imagine thinking you are without emotion!!

So, now I will send this and see if I can respond to other stuff!

Theo-

Theophilia

03-25-2004, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Pam
Astrology used to be a generally accepted as a science, and it's still considered as such by those who practice it, as Irish stated earlier in the thread. It does use hard and fast rules, with the planets being in fixed positions measured to the fractions of degrees, the movement of those planets being absolutely predictable. You could theoretically do one reading for a person, that would last them their entire life because the birth moment does not change, and the position of the planets at that moment are written in stone.

I hear you, I just haven't found this to be true in my experience. There's a huge debate in the astrology community about when, exactly, the Age of Aquarius starts. Or did start or will depending on who you ask.

If it were mathematical, then you would never need an astrologer, you could put all the data into a computer and pull out the pefect reading every time.

I also like the idea of tools which is why I am using cards, because they have actual meanings, because it takes me further out of the loop, gives "them" more access. And I admit, I would be delighted to have Irish's crystal ball.

BUT...

(There's always a "but" !!)

I am very seriously suggesting that all of our tools are completely meaningless and that all these processes that reveal Truth are exactly the same process. Like, um....rain and snow and hail and fog are all the same process, it is only exposure to different physical conditions that causes them to be different from one another, but they are actually the same thing: water coming from the sky to the earth.

Are we all saying the same thing and am I being dense?

Theo<--where dense is always a possibility!

Irish140

03-25-2004, 02:53 PM

In my menopause-fogged brain, I think of ideas I want to share and then they're gone before I can type them down.

You, on the other hand, probably typed great gobs of genius thoughts only to have AOL lose them before you can punch SEND and on their way to us...somewhere the Zen/ethereal/spirit-filled gods are laughing.

Your words reminded me of when I white-knuckled it in an airplane from Michigan to Las Vegas to attend my first American Federation of Astrologers convention, about 15-20 years ago. Boy, was I excited about being surrounded with nothing but like-minded people who would come together and spew nothing but white light and astro love on each other. HA!!!! Something was flying all right but it was messier than love.

I'm sitting in this lecture room with about 30 people, and there's a number of them, about 5 I'd say, who were each trying to out-astrologer each other. Example: "My way's the right way." "I only use the 90-degree dial." "I would only have surgery when the Moon is void of course." Believe me, as the voices escalated, it was turning into a real bitch fight and getting totally out of control. I stood up and said, "I did NOT fly nauseausly all the way across the country to listen to THIS! Can we please get back to the purpose of being here? Sharing and learning without the ego-fest?" Please note that the majority there in that room DID agree with me, though.

I guess even back then, Astrologers as a group couldn't agree on even the simplest goal of recognizing that we each were dependent on the other to stand as good examples of what our beliefs and views represented to the outside world . And when you're drawn to Astrology, there IS something inside you that wants the subject to become respected and considered legitimate. Because, with that respect and legitimacy comes more scientific opportunity for in-depth study and research.

That's why "good enough" isn't good enough for me. And why I have more questions than answers. Aren't you glad, Theo, that you're not drawn to it?

But we're still back to the fact that the basis for great astrology is
mathematical. The problems come about because we can't even agree on a math system that stands the test of time ,is prove-able, and works! (Please see my posts about INCARN and spiritual birth times as opposed to first-breath birth times in Paige's thread.)

I think I'll just go talk to my crystal ball.

Irish140

Pam

03-25-2004, 03:43 PM

Cindy what a horrible experience. I can imagine how deflated you felt after that experience. I've had similar ones, where my expectations exceeded the actual experience. Bummer!

My 2.5 cents is, for whatever it's really worth is....

...all of these labels are of human construct. If Mars has an energy and possibly a concousness of it's own, do we really think Mars is up there saying to itself "Sheeesh, I'm so misunderstood. If only those "X" number of humans would get it "right" like those "Y" number of humans got it right, then I would feel more validated".

We're the ones that have to know exactly when the Aquarian Age starts. I doubt that the planets care one way or another, or for that matter, all of the ascended masters and the Creator. In my opinion, knowing or anticipating the exact moment that it comes isn't what's important. What we do when it comes, is.

Cindy, isn't it possible that the "aquarian age" has started for some, (based on the meaning and implications of the interpretation of such an alignment, not the actual alignment itself) and that for others it won't start for another 1000 years? I'm not talking specifics, I'm talking in terms of the higher purpose of such alignments. Couldn't it be personalized, based on the alignment of the planets for each person?

I guess I still can't let go of the need for everyone to do it the same way. Let's say I take up astrology and make conclusions about a person's personality traits, life purpose, possible challenges and opportunties, and I feel I'm guided by my spirit guides when I do those things....and I'm happy with it, and so are the people I create charts for....then why should you be upset if I do it differently than you do? If it works for me, is it "wrong"?

Jacqueline

03-25-2004, 03:53 PM

:angel:
I feel like I have opened a whole can of worms with my question about birth and adopted names. I am also embarrassed to say this, but, you guys lost me a long time ago on this one. :goofy: Sorry. :o

:cat:

Irish140

03-25-2004, 04:26 PM

Pam,

I can add a couple of my thoughts to your questions. Very simply put, if you and I both read the same chart, or for that matter, say Sandy Anastasi jumped in and she read that same chart, too...you would ( I would) expect it to be 3 completely different takes on the same person, with probably a lot of very similar comments thrown in as well. But that's as it should be with interpretation.

Different, because we 3 are different. You might look at it from a soul growth issue.

I might come from the practical end in how it can help you in your personal life with your job, your kids, your money.

Sandy ,might see something in both areas...either because it just jumps out at her because she's having a better day than you or me, or she picks something up intuitively and throws those tidbits in.

Maybe the person is more compatible to begin with , with one or the other of us. We have planets alike. Our backrounds are alike and so we have that environmental thing in common.

But the one thing all three of us should agree on is the chart we agree is the correct one from which to start with in the first place.

Say the person has the time right off the birth certificate. We know that that isn't even 100% fail-proof. Maybe Sandy intuitively feels she should take 20 minutes off. (I'm sure she'd do what's called some rectification in there as well.)

You'd use the stated birth time and be very comfortable with it.

I on the other hand, would not trust that using that birth time will yield a correct chart. (once again, it's the INCARN theory.)

See how just the three of us , if we descended on this poor person with our outlooks, thoughts, and opinions...well, hell...
who wouldn't be confused? It's this step, this beginning point that weakens Astrology to the world in general. That bothers me. It might not bother others. But me, I want a definitive answer. I don't think I'll get one in my lifetime.

Another point that I wanted to make.

A LOT of confusion is caused because when astrologers talk about someone's chart or counsels a client, they use words and phrases, unintentionally, that gives the person the idea that :

You've got a Mars transit, and Mars is squaring Uranus touching off your Saturn...good grief...drive carefully for the next week! Say that your Mars is in Gemini and transiting Uranus is in Pisces,
(it is actually!) and your Saturn is Gemini as well...well don't drink and drive, make sure you watch your medication intake if you're on the road, and watch out you don't hurt your feet or toes.

It sounds from the astrologer that those pesky planets are causing these things to happen. NO.NO.NO. What happens is that when planets are in certain signs or are in certain angles from each other, whether it's 30, 60, 90, 120 degrees...they set up certain vibrations with each other and it shows itself to us on earth. But they don't MAKE things happen...they REFLECT what is happening. Free will is always in play. It's just easier for astrologers to start using the words that when such and such is happening this is how it will react with you. But in truth, I feel, that whenever or whatever is happening in your life, the planets are just the reflection of your own day to day exsistence.

You know how John, when he's reading someone and will tell information to the person , but he'll put it in the form of a question..."who's the P?
Who's got a backround in public office?" He knows he's actually telling them something. A person who won't or doesn't want to believe in his work will take this and say "Look, he's guessing.He has to ask."

Not true at all. It's his way of focusing and imparting his information. Keeping in some sort of order in his mind . He already knows what he's telling them is what he wants to say. Whether they agree with the info on the spot is beside the point. He's already put it out there...it's just that it's in the form of a question...but it's not really...not to him.

My point is that words do sound different to different people. Astrologers really don't stop and think how it's coming out and affecting another's opinion. The planets don't cause anything.But they're a mirror to activities to everything alive on earth.

About the Aquarius thing. I've got to think about that one a bit.
Imagine...me without a comeback!

Irish140

maria V

03-25-2004, 05:56 PM

This has been a fascinating and informative thread guys. I'm really learning so much about myself simply by reading your different points of view.

Irish I have a question - is the INCARN theory the same as prenatal astrology?

I definitely agree with you about the way some astrologers go about interpreting their information to the client. I think it goes back to what JE kept talking about at the workshop - EGO. In my opinion it is irresponsible for an astrologer to make a matter of fact statment to any client. That completely takes away from what the whole point of having a consultation is:

To understand the blueprint of your life so that you are aware of your strengths and weaknesses, thus giving you the opportunity to CHANGE what you want to based on the trends of energy surrounding your life.

A person can have a "tendency" to be explosive and angry, but with the right astrologer showing them the way out of this possible manifestation (maybe through an easy aspect in the natal chart) the beauty of astrology is that the person never has to manifest this "tendency".

And any astrologer who claims that the person is going to DEFINITELY be angry and explosive in their relationships is not doing anything to help the client.

This brings me to another point I want to make about astrology that hasn't been mentioned yet. IMO, more than any other tool, astrology has a beautiful blending of psychology inherent to it. This is what drew me to the study in the first place. You really can help a person make postive life changes and decisions. It's not only a scrying tool, it's a counseling tool.

It makes me wonder Irish, about all the different "types" of astrology that trouble you so much. Yes it's true that there is western astrology, vedic astrology, pre-natal astrology, psychological astrology, and probably many other "schools of thought" out there that I'm unaware of. But, think about it this way:

A psychologist may be trained in cognitive theory, freudian theory, or countless others in their education and use their methods of training to heal a client. They ALL have flaws yet they also ALL have some validity to them. What it comes down to is personal choice. It's up to the client to decide what form of therapy they believe will be most helpful to their situation. I believe the same to be true with astrology. THe client will be "drawn" to the type of astrology (western, vedic, etc...) that they believe will be most helpful to them.

I also think the same is true with the STUDENTS of astrology. We are drawn to one over the other for a reason.

When there is a destination that you have to drive to and you get 5 different people giving you what they believe is the "best route" does it really matter which one you take if they all get you to the same destination?

Pam, you said this in one of your posts:
You could theoretically do one reading for a person, that would last them their entire life because the birth moment does not change, and the position of the planets at that moment are written in stone.

I just wanted to mention that yes, the postion of the planets are "written in stone" but that wouldn't mean that one reading would last a lifetime because the transiting planets need to be considered as well (that is where the planets are today placed against where they were at birth). The possibilities in astrology are endless and what is written in stone is the person's inherent talents, abilities and weaknesses not the outcome of them.

Irish, I also wanted to ask you what you think about the validity of a solar chart would be. You seem to have a high need for precision and since a solar chart only accounts for the day of birth I would like to know what you think about this. In my beginning astrology classes, we learned how to interpret a person's horoscope right out of the ephemeris without any additional information. I was surprised at how much information you can get simply from knowing about the planetary line-up on the date of birth. Of course it can't be as detailed and in-depth as a natal chart, but I do believe you can give a great overview to a client about their life simply by using this method.

Once again, thank you all for taking the time to post your thoughtful opinions on this subject. It is wonderful to share this exchange with you all. And also, I know that sometimes in "talking online" what someone writes is sometimes taken the wrong way. I want you all to know that for me, everything I post is coming from one place - my desire to learn more about the subject and myself as well as helping others learn more about something that I believe can help make their lives more fulfilling and meaningful.

Love to all,
Maria

:daisy: :)

Irish140

03-25-2004, 09:13 PM

Maria,

If you are just starting to study astrology, I've got to tell you how impressed I am with your grasp on this subject.

The pre-natal chart, or conception chart is one drawn up for the moment of conception. Since this time is only speculative it's hard to say what effect it has on any individual. It's ,in a nutshell, the placement of the Sun, Moon, and planets when a person is conceived. It's not the same as an INCARN chart. That one is based on when the spirit enters the baby's body, almost always before birth when the mother is in labor. The conception chart is supposed to show how people think or "conceive" of things...the cerebral side of any human being.

In order to find such a speculative time, the astrologer believes that at or near the time of conception, the Moon must be in conjunction or opposition to whatever the Natal Ascendant turns out to be. And the conception Ascendant must be in conjunction or opposition to whatever the Natal Moon turns out to be.There have been studies done, and disagreements occur over whether
or not these interchanges have to be exact in degree or not...but the debate continues with astrologers who have the fortitude and stamina to delve in to it. The conception chart differs from INCARN in that it is supposed to be used ALONG WITH the Natal chart. Whereas the INCARN chart aspires to REPLACE the natal chart.

And you are just so,so right about Astrology being a wonderful tool for psychological profiling, study, and examination. I don't understand people who AREN'T curious enough about themselves and others that they want to use any means available to excercise their brains by analyzing the heck out of everything. But , that's just my Virgo moon excitedly talking again! I must boor the poop out of some people...know what I mean?

As far as the solar chart...there's a couple ways to do even this chart.One is you take the degree of your sun sign, put it on the ascendant or first house, place that degree on all remaining 11 houses, and then write in the planets from the day you were born. Or you can take your birthdate, type in noon for that day, which will put your sun at the top of your chart and read it that way. I prefer putting the sun on the first, that's the way they draw up each 12 charts for the newspaper and magazine columns you read about. That's why, if you know your rising sign, that's really the sign you should read in these columns. It will come a little closer in hitting you personally.

When I did my radio program, ,I would have my ephemeris right there, (that's a book with the placements for each day of the year for every century) and believe me you can tell quite a bit just by looking at those guys, if you know where the planets are right now and compare the two in your head. I learned to think very fast on my feet doing it that way.

You know, astrology is a very adult version of where's Waldo ...
it's very simple really , if you can just get through the maze!

I used to literally get sick to my stomach when I was first learning everything. I tried to take it all in and just when I thougt I was getting it, my mind went blank and I felt like I needed a sugar fix or something!

You're going to make a wonderful addition to our family of astrologers, I just feel it.

Irish140

And Pam,

Regarding the Aquarian age, because the constellations have invisible, maybe even over-lapping boundaries, there is disagreement as to just where the cusp is for the starting point of the Aqaurian Age from the Piscean Age. Some believe it's starting now, and that's not too hard to swallow because of our amazing scientific advancements in computers and space travel.

Sidereal astrologers believe it's still much further into our future...2157A.D. or 2374 A.D.

I'll just be happy to wake up tomorrow morning.

Cindy

Theophilia

03-25-2004, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Irish140
Regarding the Aquarian age, because the constellations have invisible, maybe even over-lapping boundaries, there is disagreement as to just where the cusp is for the starting point of the Aqaurian Age from the Piscean Age.

That would only be one set of the issue. Another is: does it start when the constellation appears over the horizon or when it is firmly above the horizon? I once saw a discussion of this issue between two astrologers that went on for more than three-hundred posts. But I didn't understand a bit of it and still don't.

Probably what makes it scientific, you can't get two scientists to agree about much that is theoretical either!

Theo-

Irish140

03-25-2004, 09:31 PM

Theo,

Isn't each age, like a thousand years long? I'm not sure.

You have finally found an astrological subject I feel very benign about...I know, I can't believe it either.

How can some people be bored with life, though, when there are so many interesting questions concerning what's "out there" and
what's "in here" as well?

Is this curiosity trait one that all of us here share and recognize in each other?

Very possible.

irish140

Theophilia

03-25-2004, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Irish140
Theo,

Isn't each age, like a thousand years long? I'm not sure.

You have finally found an astrological subject I feel very benign about...I know, I can't believe it either.

irish140

I don't know about the thousand year thing, sounds familiar, though. The only reason I ever heard of this issue is because some pope or other apparently had a vision about the coming of the spiritual age and that it would follow this era of war and it's all supposed to be about the Age of Aquarius. (And his vision was a thousand of one followed by a thousand of the other.) But I lost my notes about which pope it was or where it was published and no one on the Catholic boards will talk about it.

Anyway, that's when I waded through the whole Aquarian bruhaha.

Theo-

Irish140

03-25-2004, 10:25 PM

I was just taking a shower and thinking about what I wrote and I thought, that 1,000 years doesn't feel right. Theo, I think what you and I are referring to with the 1,00 years is that THAT'S the length of time the transition from one age to the next takes.

NASA states that the 12 GREAT YEARS add up to almost 26,000 years total. So a great year is 1/12th of 25,800.

I guess I'll worry about it when it gets here. Wake me up and let me know.

Irish

maria V

03-26-2004, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by Irish140
Maria,

You know, astrology is a very adult version of where's Waldo ...
it's very simple really , if you can just get through the maze!

I used to literally get sick to my stomach when I was first learning everything. I tried to take it all in and just when I thougt I was getting it, my mind went blank and I felt like I needed a sugar fix or something!

Boy Irish that is exactly how I'm feeling at this point in my studies. For me, the most difficult part of it all so far has been the mathematics involved. I'm in the intermediate classes now and this is where we learn how to do the actual chart construction. I'm up to my earlobes in math and I HATE math!:confused: If I have to interpolate one more chart I think I'm going to scream...(LOL). Thank goodness that once I learn it (for the sake of learning it and passing my certification exam), I can then go to one of the software programs out there to do all of the work for me. Gosh Irish, you have that virgo moon that loves the details and I have an impatient Aries rising with a Sadge moon that just wants to get out there and discover the truth inherent in the birth chart (and have fun with it at the same time). I can't wait until I've finished this part of the class and then go onto more advanced interpretation.

It's true also how doing a reading for someone is like putting together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle for in under an hour. There is so much to consider and talk about that you can spend a lifetime analyzing one chart! That is where I think intuition comes into play with astrology. I'm learning (from my teacher and advisor) that yes, there are several "cookbook" ways that you can interpret a particular aspect or placement in a chart. If so, then which one is correct for the client? The answer to that, IMO, is probably ALL of them to some extent, BUT our intuition will kick in (or our guides or psychic ability) and we are supposed to go with out gut and interpret the chart for which one of the interpretations pops out into our minds as being most significant to the client at that time in his/her life.

This is also where astrologers vary in their interpretation of a chart and probably where (to the less esoterically minded folk) people begin to see flaws in astrology as well. I'm learning to see this difference as not necessarily a flaw, but instead as a higher power helping the client help choose that particular astrologer to do the reading, thus bringing to light whatever needs to be discussed at that particular time in his life.
I hope I'm not getting too philosophical here...:goofy:

And I agree with you Cindy, it would be fascinating to get an astrological profile for members of a group such as this. I believe we would find some obvious common links such as alot of 8th, 9th and 12th house influence in charts as well as significant placement of the outer planets. For example, I know nothing about the site's creator Pam except for what she share's with us on the board, but from reading her posts and taking in her great interest in religion and spirituality and in SHARING in her quest for universal truth and higher learning, I would bet that she has a significant 9th house influence in her birth chart.

I myself, have 2 planets in the 8th house conjuncting my north node (all in Sagittarius), 2 planets in the 12th house and I also have a t-square in my chart with the open end shooting right out into my 9th house.

I'd love to hear more about the strong influences in your own chart Cindy, if you don't mind sharing it.

And to Theo about the Aquarian Age,

My humble opinion on it is that yes, we are, in fact on the cusp of the Aquarian Age. I don't have a great need for an "exact" time of when it happened because I think it's more interesting to study what's going on in the world that shows that the influence of the Aquarian Age is upon us. In astrology there is something called an "orb of influence" and this is yet another gray area in astrology where each astrologer has his own. Orb is simply the number of degrees a planet must be with another before the influence or aspect between the two is felt. The closer the orb, the more strongly we feel the connection and the further away the orb the less intense the connection would be.

With this in mind, even if the Aquarian Age is still another 100 years away, if it has a cycle of 2600 years then we are certainly, if not IN the AGE itself, then definitely in the ORB of influence of the age. And I agree with Cindy that, with all of the computer and technological advancements we have made over the past several years (along with the fact that Neptune is currently in Aquarius) that we are probably within the orb of influence and will only see trends of Aquarius become stronger over the next 100 years or so. BTW, this isn't limited to technology. There is strong potential for this age to show the world much humanitarianism and universal love. I don't think we'll see great strides in this area in our lifetime however. I think that's gonna take quite a bit of Aquarian energy covering the Earth before that happens (Of course this is just my humble opinion).

Hugs,
Maria:daisy:

Theophilia

03-26-2004, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by maria V
And I agree with Cindy that, with all of the computer and technological advancements we have made over the past several years (along with the fact that Neptune is currently in Aquarius) that we are probably within the orb of influence and will only see trends of Aquarius become stronger over the next 100 years or so. BTW, this isn't limited to technology. There is strong potential for this age to show the world much humanitarianism and universal love. ... Maria:daisy:
I agree about the Aquarian Age, or whatever someone else may wish to call it. We are at the beginning of what a friend of mine calls an "essential shift." (BTW, I had a vision about this, I am wondering if anyone else here has gotten this in meditation?)

I also believe that the technology is part and parcel of this. This age is connecting us physically as we are all connected spiritually, which resyults in us being more connected spritually in the physical plane. My version of what the Church calls the Parousia, is that time when the two "sides" merge and I believe strongly that technology is intrinsic to the process.

As for all you astrological types: more power to you! I always thought that astrology would be the most powerful of the tools if one could master it. But I also think "mastering" it is tantamount to the work you'd do to earn a PhD!

I'm for tarot: the lazy woman's astrological chart!

Theo<---also math deficient

Irish140

03-28-2004, 08:09 PM

Maria,

This being a site dedicated to the study of mediumship, general psychic ability, and all issues and experiences surrounding the subject of death, you would expect people with the appropriately compatible qualities found in the signs and planets associated with Pisces, Scorpio, Neptune and Pluto.

That's not just with the sun signs, though. You would also include the moon sign, rising sign, and important conjunctions in the charts of the members here. Also, whenever you look or include one sign, you're going to want to give credence to its opposite sign...in this case, Virgo and Taurus.

Of the 15 members that have started threads here in this Study Group section, 9 have one of these signs as either their sun sign or Moon sign. Two had moon signs that changed on their birthdays, so they weren't included, and one does not reveal her birth data in her profile. This is all very unscientific, but it's still interesting and not surprising that there IS a pattern of sorts .

I myself have 4 planets in Pisces. I was born during a full moon in Virgo, almost exact to the minute, and I have 25 degrees Cancer rising, using my INCARN chart. Using my birth certificate time, I have Leo rising. The Cancer is the correct one, though.

I never intrude on someone's astrological privacy unless I have permission, but since Pam posted her birthday, we all know she's a Scorpio, the sign that rules the study of death and the afterlife. I guess she fits perfectly into the scheme of our world here, huh?

As for you Maria...are you absolutely comfortable with your Aries rising sign? Have you ever considered the possibility you might actually have a Pisces ascendant? Just putting this out there for you to think about.

Also, because this site is about John Edward's work, we should all have SOMETHING in common with his chart. He's got like four planets in Libra, and an Aquarian Moon, so he would attract those signs to him as well...I think there's quite a few Aries type people here, and that being the opposite sign to him would bring a natural attraction. By the way, he has published his birth date in his book, so this info is out there for all to see. Again, though, we honor his wish not to intrude further.

Even just dipping our toes into the communal astro pool, we already start seeing the affinity for like-minded souls to gather. Pretty interesting, isn't it?

Irish140

Amy Rose

03-28-2004, 08:35 PM

wow this is interesting. now how do you know all about how many planets you have in a certain sign? and also your moon sign? the only thing i know is that i am a scorpio (my b-day is nov 17). how do you figure that type of stuff out?

PsyQuestor

03-28-2004, 08:39 PM

Cindy this discussion is quite interesting! I love it. I've been looking more and more at my chart and that of my better half and my best friend. It's interesting to see how we 'align' with people who have similar things going on in their charts or where you show up in theirs. For example I show up in Scott's 12th house. It was explained to me that we have almost a karmic kind of tie to each other. (I'm working on trying to understand exactly what that means etc.) Being a Libra I can see positives and negatives associated with that.

My friend Robin did some charts for me today that have both our charts on one page, so I can see some aspects that I hadn't noticed before. Then I come here only to see that you all are having the same type of discussion :D

How neat is that?

Tammy

PsyQuestor

03-28-2004, 08:46 PM

AmyRose, you do a chart based on where you were born, what time and date. Now when you see the chart it's a circle with all the signs all around it (12 signs, 12 houses). It's as if someone stood in the middle at the moment of your birth and took a picture of the night sky and where the planets, sun and moon were at that exact moment. It is all very awesome to find your rising sign your sun and moon sign and see how they all make your chart individually yours.

I hope that helps a little.

Irish140

03-28-2004, 09:23 PM

Amy Rose,

There is a book called an ephemeris, which has the listings of all the planets and the sun and moon for any given day in a particular century.

If I know your birthday, like yours, I can quickly look you up and see that you have a Scorpio sun (welcome to the club), a Gemini Moon, and 3 other planets in Scorpio.

If the moon changes signs on your birthday, you'd need the time before you can see what your moon is in, but on your day for example, it was Gemini all day long.

The ephemeris is published in books for planetary placements for both midnight and greenwich noon mean time . Both books have the two moon placements in their pages. The planets are only listed for one time depending on which book you choose to use.

The noon moon placement is equivalent to 7 am est, so if the Gemini moon is listed as 5 degrees 47 minutes in the book, that means it's at almost 6 degrees on your birthday at 7 am est. Since the moon moves about 1 degree every 2 hours, if you were born on the east coast at say, 11 am est, your moon would be in Gemini at about 7 degrees 30 minutes in YOUR chart. This is approximate, remember. That's why, in certain instances, just looking in this book with a birthtime will enable you to very closely find the degree of the moon as well.

Another tidbit...take anyone's birthday...say, March 9th. If you add 10 to this number you will be very close in figuring out what degree the sun sign is. March 9th= about 19 degrees. you'll be withing 1-2 degees of the actual sun sign degree.

Another example: January 15 +10= 25 Degrees. It won't be exact, but you will be close, within 1-3 degrees of knowing the sun sign degree without doing anything more.

Irish140