April 12, 2004 at 1:18 pm #95152
You’re quite welcome. Ditto for me too. It’s amazing what comes to the surface when the multiple translations of Jesus’ words are dusted off and his original words are allowed to shine through. If I had nothing but free time, I’d learn Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek and do the translations myself ;)April 12, 2004 at 4:27 pm #95166
Being that so many versions of the Bible exist, it’s evident that no single version is 100% consistent with the original. Like Pam said, it would be great to be able to learn the language and translate for ourselves (in all our spare time ;) ). But is there a version that scholars agree to be “as close as possible”?
HeatherApril 12, 2004 at 4:44 pm #95167CarolynBModerator
But is there a version that scholars agree to be “as close as possible”?
I’m not sure that there ever really could be – as I once remarked in another thread – in order for me to adequately describe my feelings about blueberry pie, I have to resort to French (even though English is my first/primary language) – “degoulasse”! No matter how I try to describe it in English (the translation is “disgusting”), “degoulasse” feels more like what I’m trying to express. Sometimes a word simply doesn’t have a translation that exactly fits the original intent/feeling/expression. I equate it to the knowing that we talk about when it comes to the afterlife. And it’s the reason I use several different translations when I study – sometimes I’ll get the feeling that one translation is speaking a truth I understand better than another translation.April 12, 2004 at 4:56 pm #95169
You’re so right Carolyn, but not only the limits of language prevent this, but the limits of “man’s” inability to be unbiased. Even scholars have predefined beliefs, whether they admit it or not. Even scientist’s have “world views”. The words will always be subject to the translators existing beliefs about what they’re translating.
Ever notice that there is no Native American bible or scripture, and very little writting about NA religious beliefs? This is on purpose, because they knew that the written word was subject to not only translation error, but interpretation error. Early Jewish msysiticism was forbidden to be written down for this reason as well, and was passed on by word of mouth. Words are only 10% of total human communication. The other 90% is body language, facial expression, tone, accent, garb, material possessions, and many other conscious and unconsious methods of human communication. The written word is so limited!April 12, 2004 at 5:07 pm #95170
Thanks Carolyn and Pam. You both make very good points; ones that I need to remember as I study and try to find my path. I’ve said before that it’s very hard to break out of my old fundamentalist ways. I’ve come along way though; I’m thinking for myself and learning as much as I can about different religions and different perspectives on my religion. I’m not looking at things in black and white any more.
Wouldn’t it have been wonderful to have been in the presence of Christ and have been able to listen to his teaching for ourselves? I guess the next best thing to do is what Carolyn said, and use several versions in my studies, and listen to the one that speaks to my heart :musicnote .
HeatherApril 12, 2004 at 10:57 pm #95186
Heather, I’ve had that fantasy so many times — sitting at the feet of Jesus when he was teaching. To be able to ask him questions, see his facial expressions, hear his tone, see him laugh, weep and get even angry, I’d want to see it all. Maybe I’ll just have to wait until I get to the Other Side, and track him down there :thumbsup:
I’ve done the same thing that Carolyn suggested, using online bibles that are sort of “side by side”. Then I tried to learn about the writing of the bibles themselves, and how the translations and changes from version to version came about. I can see it would be a life-long study to truly appreciate the bigger picture over the last 2000 years. I give you a LOT of credit for breaking out of the fundamentalist mold. I understand what you say about “black and white” and thinking for yourself. That can be very scarey. My best wishes are with you :)April 13, 2004 at 2:52 am #95196starlasueParticipant
Ditto that Heather and Pam! I’d want to sit and listen and listen. I think I’d be too tongue-tied to talk though. (me – tongued tied – ha :D )
I have 10 versions of the Bible! Sometimes when I want to study a passage, I’ll pull different ones down to see how they are translated. It is fascinating really.
Our son is in seminary and has been learning Greek so he can read and study the New Testament in Greek. He says it is fascinating to read the texts in the language much of the NT was written in. He says in many instances there just aren’t good words for the meaning in English.
I think I’ll let that to him. His old mom just isn’t good with foreign languages. (sometimes not the English one either! :laff2: )
Thanks for the info, very interesting.
starlasueApril 13, 2004 at 11:50 am #95199
A pretty interesting resource for comparing English versions of bibles is gospelcom.net, which has the text in about 18 different versions. You can search by passage, by keyword and choose the version you want the passage displayed in, or display all 18 versions of the passage.
Then to dip into the Greek and Hebrew, I use http://www.blueletterbible.org which has multiple cross references for every phrase and almost every word of the bible in Greek and Hebrew, so you can see a more full meaning of the word. For example, the phrase “suffer the children” – you can see a full defination of the word “suffer” in Greek and Hebrew, so you can more fully translate for yourself.April 13, 2004 at 12:46 pm #95200CarolynBModerator
Pam – thanks for the gospelcom.net site – I hadn’t seen it before. The blueletterbible site is the one I usually use. As one who has always looked for the meaning behind the meaning (if you will), that site has been very helpful.April 13, 2004 at 12:56 pm #95201starlasueParticipant
Cool – thanks Pam!April 13, 2004 at 3:09 pm #95203
Pam and Carolyn, thanks for the info on the websites; I think they’re going to be very helpful :) .
HeatherApril 13, 2004 at 8:50 pm #95216PBPanParticipant
Oh yay! :musicnote Thank you Pam, Heather, Carolyn, and starlasue for keeping this thread going!
The sites you shared are fascinating. Pam is there a site where I could read the “Our Father” prayer in the “original” Aramaic?
It has been the wish of my entire life to build a time capsule and travel back in time and to just be an observer, to see, to witness the life of Jesus (Yeshua). My family would say my wish would be crazy because that was the reason we have faith, but that answer never satisfied me.
I’m so glad I’m not alone.
:musicnote Thank you again!!
MeganApril 13, 2004 at 9:07 pm #95219
Is there ever!
Check this page out (give it time to load)
Aramaic has it’s own alphabet, but on the bottom right of the page, is a graphic with the English pronounciation. The book “The Hidden Gospel: Decoding the spiritual message of the Aramaic Jesus” by Neil Douglas-Klotz is also available on audio cassette, where you can hear the actual Aramaic. The author talks about the energy of the words themselves, and helps us to understand that Aramaic is a rich and msytical language, and that the language lends itself to multiple meanings.
A great book, in paper back and audio cassette :thumbsup:April 13, 2004 at 9:24 pm #95221
I also found this site today, http://www.assyrianlanguage.com, (don’t know how to do a link). If you really want to get into the complexities of the language, and, as Pam said, the multiple meanings of words, this looks like a great site.
It is divided into different levels, with each level containing several lessons, starting with the most basic. To really delve into it would, of course be very time consuming, but it might be a good site if you just want a basic overview, also.
btw, it also describes the different forms of Aramaic that were spoken in the different regions, but goes more in depth on the form spoken by Jesus.
Oh, cool…I guess it does the links all by itself :o !April 13, 2004 at 9:53 pm #95225PBPanParticipant
Thank you Pam and Heather! The sites are so cool!! :cool:
Wow the Aramaic is so beautiful! Thank you!
Words are failing me now to express my gratitude and thanks, but I can say a smile has spread across my face that has grown into a larger than a cheshire grin!
You guys rock!
Many blessings and God Bless! :musicnote
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