September 28, 2001 at 8:41 pm #62415
I was recently watching an episode of CO on the SciFi channel, when something happened I have a question about.
JE was doing a one-on-one with a woman, and he asked “who is the m-n name, like ‘Minnie’…”
The woman interrupted him at that point and said “That’s my mother. Her name was Millie”.
Well, you know what my next thought was – there is no “N” in “Millie”.
A few moments later, he said “she was very loud and boisterous, wasn’t she?”
The woman replied that no, she was not that way at all.
In the followup interview, she said that she never knew a quieter, meeker person than her mother, but that her mother would do anything for her, so it was good to know she was boisterous when it came to contacting her.
(I’m paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it.)
Although, with my mind set, there is always much on the show which I question, this just really stuck out to me.
– He got the letters in the name wrong
– He got her primary personality trait wrong.
– Yet the woman seemed to accept that it was her mother.
The only interpretation I have of this is the skeptical one, and I don’t even have to say it, as you’ve heard it all before.
What is your interpretation of it?
-BobSeptember 28, 2001 at 9:19 pm #71103DonParticipant
I vaguely remember that one, so will have make a point to watch for it. John seems to first try to make contact between someone here and someone there and then he gives as much information as he can and finally he backs up and goes for the validations. It would be nice to know, regardless of the apparent “miss” whether or not “Millie” was validated to be the one who was coming through and, if so, if there was an “N” in any of her other initials. For instance, if her name was Mildred North, the person being read could still respond, “Oh yes, that’s Millie!” There’s just no way to know. John’s guides seem to give him the nod as to whether to keep going or, “nope that’s not it.”
Also, he gives himself some leaway on how he’s interpreting the letter sounds. One would have to know how an “N” and “L” come across. For example, even for a lip-reader I’d think it’d be extremely difficult for them to interpret those two letters without some other context.
The “loudness” of someone coming through was one of chat room topics last Sunday. We guessed it had something to do with the strength of their energy. It’d be a good “John” question.September 28, 2001 at 11:16 pm #71107
Don great explaination.
Bob, here you go again. If that is your interpretation to be skeptical that is fine. No one here is trying to change you of that. This is something that you need to complete for yourself if that is what you want.
If the woman accepted that it was her mother coming through than so be it. Evidently, you forgot the rest of reading. Treading water Bob, be careful!September 29, 2001 at 2:32 am #71110amfieParticipant
Bob, I thought the same thing when I saw it, but then thought “Hey isn’t Millie short for Millicent?” I know its not much but there is an N there and maybe they never called her by her full name, just Millie and of course if it was her mother, then well she called her Mom!September 29, 2001 at 2:36 am #71111PsyQuestorParticipant
I remember that reading well. And IMO Millie and Minnie are pretty darned close to be saying that it was a complete ‘miss.’ As far as personality :shrug: the woman agreed with him, saying that her mother would be assertive where she was concerned. Good enough for me.
John doesn’t just accept things. He makes sure that the information is going in the right place by getting further validation from the other side. More information to back up what was just ‘missed’. And by missed, i mean that the person didn’t adequately explain it or get it. Not missed like skeptics mean miss.
IMO, if JE was a fraud he would be the most agreeable person ever. BUT he isn’t. He doesn’t play to the ‘relative stealers’ or the people out there saying ME me me.
TammySeptember 29, 2001 at 6:52 am #71117
Wow, looks like everyone’s been waiting for a skeptical question – fourteen replies on two questions in just a few hours! :)
Thanks for all the feedback. Especially Amfie – I hadn’t thought about “Millicent”.
Yes, I know that JE doesn’t jump at every interpretation that someone gives to his statements. I have seen many times when he would be asking for, say, a “Jo” name (Joan Joanne Josie, etc), and someone would say “that’s my aunt Jessie!” and JE would say “no, that’s not it”.
That’s why it struck me odd that he let it pass this time, which was why I asked about it here.
Scrambled: I think you have me wrong, but I’ll PM you about it later.
BobSeptember 29, 2001 at 7:52 am #71119
I’ve decided to respond to you in the thread rather than a PM, under the assumption that if you felt that way about my post, chances are there are others who do too, and I wanted to make my intent clear.Quote:Bob, here you go again. If that is your interpretation to be skeptical that is fine. No one here is trying to change you of that.
Cyndy, I wasn’t asking anybody to try to convince me of anything. Nor was I trying to convince them of anything. I was just asking a question.Quote:This is something that you need to complete for yourself if that is what you want.
If by that you are saying I need to come to my own decisions on things, I totally agree. And asking questions (and reading answers) here is one of the ways I try to do that.Quote:If the woman accepted that it was her mother coming through than so be it. Evidently, you forgot the rest of reading. Treading water Bob, be careful!
You seem to be reading some bad intent into my question which just isn’t there.
I was not saying “neener-neener-neener, he made a mistaaaake!”. Saying he got a “hit” or “miss” on something as generic as a name is fruitless, and proves nothing.
I just saw him do something which stuck out for me (his accepting that the woman being read had correctly identified the “spirit”, even though she contradicted his two statements). I know what the skeptical interpretation of it would be. I wanted to know how believers would interpret it.
So I asked here, in what I thought was a straightforward way. And have gotten some interesting answers, which is all I could hope for.
BobSeptember 29, 2001 at 5:12 pm #71126amfieParticipant
Bob just to show you how my mind works ……….
while I was in the shower, shaving my legs and coloring my hair! I was thinking of this episode.
Here is a real life (my life) story that may help to clarify how hard it must be for JE to hear and interpret sounds/letters/names from those who have crossed over!
I work in a restaurant and on Tuesdays it is my day to be the Goddess …. aka Manager on Duty. I do just about everything there but Tuesdays always seem to be nutso. I will have two servers screwing up checks that need help, corporate coming down for lunch and demanding to know what the special is, 15 people standing at the door waiting to be sat and 5 servers standing around drinking coffee and not helping to seat, at least one staff member off sick so I have to “pick up” that slack and every phone line in the place ringing at once. Needless to say it can be a bit hectic! Oh and just for fun ….. some doofus delivery guy who can’t read “Deliveries before 11:00 or after 2:00” and needs a check for wine at 12:15!!!!!!!
When all the above occurs and the phones are ringing I am generally in a hurry. I will answer the phone and say “Good afternoon, Don’s Lighthouse, this is Ann Marie speaking, how may I help you?” Invariably the people on the other end of the phone line will “Misinterpret” my name. I have been called Amory, Emily, Emory (like the nail file!) and if they are totally screwed up …. Mary Ann!!!!
Now our phone lines are fairly efficient …. not like the olden days where you have lots of static and such. People just don’t pay attention and mis “hear” things. Imagine what it is like to get sounds and letters and names whispered in your head very fast and very faint. That is how I think JE (IMHO) “hears” things being said. He must concentrate on what he hears, pushing all other sounds aside, and try and figure out what letter/sound is coming through. If people on this side, can screw my name up so bad, I don’t have a hard time believing that JE might have just as much difficulty! LOL Mary Ann??? I don’t talk with a lisp and I speak fairly well and with no accent! Geesh!
Hope this helps a little!
Oh and by the way …… “neener neener neener!” That cracked me up! :DSeptember 29, 2001 at 7:36 pm #71130
Bob, that is just it. What are you hoping for? Your original statement was that your interpretation of what you saw of that particular reading was a skeptical one, in which I replied that is fine (to be skeptic). And even with the answers here that were given back to you, aren’t you still skeptic? Of course you are. So, in wanting our interpretaion, what could that do for you? Why ask (knowing how everyone here feels about JE, his readings, his show, LAD, and in all what we believe in) for our interpretation? Will that change your mind? I hope not, for the answers have to come from you, not us, and until you stop questioning yourself, and in what you want to believe, the answers will come.
….and since you brought the neener-neener-neener part up, c’mon now Bob…fess up, it did, just alittle?;)September 29, 2001 at 8:47 pm #71132sgrenardParticipant
The question you bring up Bob concerns the first phase of the reading which in this case, as you amply point out, involves identification of spirit as to name, relationship and so forth. As we have discussed previously, and as you are well aware, after viewing close to a thousand readings not only by JE but by other mediums, it was determined that the name and identity of the spirit seems to be the most problematic part of any such effort.
Psychics tap into party lines where, in theory, over 105 billion personalities may reside …this is the figure calculated for every hominid that every lived on this planet and it doesn’t include those from other worlds, extant or extinguished.
I have seen genuine psychics including John play an un-intended game of 20 questions during this phase but not afterwards. As you also know, for the purposes of testing mediumship, I have proposed that identity, descriptive and cause of death (in the physical world) be surrendered at the outset and that the onus then be transferred to the medium: “Do you have Millie, my aunt, who died of breast cancer last month?” and anything else that might serve to describe her. It is the confluence of individual validations, also, that make the process valid when dealing with a large group who may have several Millies, several breast cancers and several people who crossed last month but only one who has all 3! This is also what skeptics fail to take into account.
in addition to ignoring the highly specific informatyion, often obscure and frequently from way out of left field …… types of information that are provided after the identity is made and the dialogue proceeds.
Names are frequently heard as initials, sounds-likes or homophones or are completely misinterpreted by mediums.
Many people have the same names or same sounding names, many people cross over as a result of the same categories of causes. These are issues which are used by pseudoskeptics to negate the entire process and this is invalid because they fail to deal with the highly specific validations which follow should the right identity be “on the line.”
This does not also negate the validity of the process nor the accuracy of a reading once the identity of the party on the other end of the line has been perfected. This has also been my observation and I am sure those of us here who have watched JE and other genuine mediums work have observed the same thing. In fact Bob, I am sure you have. But as others have said, this needs to be something you yourself need to come to terms with and I am merely offering the above to help in that respect.September 30, 2001 at 12:18 am #71139
Mary Ann: :)Quote:That is how I think JE (IMHO) “hears” things being said.
I thought that he didn’t “hear”, but that he “sees” images and sometimes letters. So the “phone” analogy doesn’t seem to fit that. The “Millicent” suggestion made above seems to best fit, to me anyway!
-Bill :)September 30, 2001 at 12:35 am #71142Quote:So, in wanting our interpretaion, what could that do for you?
It can help me to understand why some of you believe as you do. That is my main reason in being in this forum, to understand better why thinking believers (as opposed to those who believe simply because it “feels goood”) believe. When I first saw JE, my impression was that all the people who believed in him were these poor, deluded, non-thinking people who were grasping at anything to give them some hope.
And I still think there are a number of his followers who fit into that category.
But since coming here, I have seen that there are people who actually have thought it out, who know the skeptical point of view on JE, and still have come to the conclusion that he is legit.
It’s like with Christianity. There are lots and lots of people out there who go to church because it feels good, but if you start asking them skeptical questions, they have no real idea why they believe what theh believe. Others are schooled in apologetics, and show that it is possible to be a rational human being and still have that faith.
I enjoy talking with people like that. I don’t try to convert them, and they don’t try to convert me. I ask them questions which make them think, and they do the same for me.Quote:I hope not, for the answers have to come from you, not us, and until you stop questioning yourself, and in what you want to believe, the answers will come.
Yes, but the answers cannot come out of nothing. And, as I said before, my asking questions here, and reading the answers, are part of that process.Quote:….and since you brought the neener-neener-neener part up, c’mon now Bob…fess up, it did, just alittle?
Here’s an odd one: just as I started keying this in, two kids ran down the street in front of my house, one yelling “neener-neener-neener” at the other!
As to your question, the answer is, believe it or not, no. Even if I found irrefutable proof of my opinion (which I don’t expect to do), I still would not think that.
Well, gotta run my daughter to work, or I’d expound more (the crowd heaves a sigh!).
BobSeptember 30, 2001 at 1:59 am #71153
Steve, thanks for the lengthy and interesting reply. I’m still not sure where I come down on the side of the “identify beforehand” theory, but it is an interesting one.
And it is nice to see you back on the board again.
BobSeptember 30, 2001 at 2:06 am #71154
But Bob, if there are people out there, poor, deluded, non-thinking as you stated, and they are holding on to that hope, and if that is all they have to hold on to, and if that is what gets them up everyday and function, then who are you (or any other) to question that. Is that false hope, maybe in your eyes, but surely not theirs.
Also, you stated that the answers cannot come out of nothing. That’s just it Bob, what process are you talking about? The process of not having any kind of belief system? LAD? ADC? Or the process of believing JE and what he stands for and what he is doing for many. Evidently there is something missing in you.
…..and what is odd about the kids saying that as they ran outside your house….I found it amusing :) Coincendence? Naaah.
So no matter what, I wish you luck in finding whatever you are searching for and I told that way before. Take care, CyndySeptember 30, 2001 at 2:32 am #71155Quote:then who are you (or any other) to question that. Is that false hope, maybe in your eyes, but surely not theirs.
I really don’t know of a way to answer that without going outside of the bounds of what this forum is for. There was a thread I started in this forum, titled something like “Does it Matter?”, which addressed this. Either I’m misremembering the thread title, or it has been deleted. If it was indeed deleted, that shows all the more that the topic is not appropriate for this forum.Quote:That’s just it Bob, what process are you talking about?
The learning process.Quote:Evidently there is something missing in you.
Sure, there is knowledge I am missing, as is true of you and everyone else. If I thought I knew it all, even just about this topic, I would not be here asking questions.Quote:…..and what is odd about the kids saying that as they ran outside your house….I found it amusing Coincendence? Naaah.
Well, if a couple of kids had just now run down the street yelling “Coincidence? Naaah.”, I would have to think twice…Quote:So no matter what, I wish you luck in finding whatever you are searching for and I told that way before.
Thanks, I wish you the same.
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